Tanking "nerf"...

[Darkmithoron]

[Zor]

Damn I'm a noob. What does this mean? That if you taunt the same mob over and over again it will have Diminishing returns on the effectiveness of the taunt? Guess i really just don't know how much tanks have to taunt the same mob.

[Darkmithoron]

Zor wrote:

Damn I'm a noob. What does this mean? That if you taunt the same mob over and over again it will have Diminishing returns on the effectiveness of the taunt? Guess i really just don't know how much tanks have to taunt the same mob.

Think Gluth...or Kel'Thuzad who I have to taunt each time he does a mind control...it can get really ugly.

During intense fights when a high DPS (Elife) is riding the edge, we'll often taunt to maintain control of the mob.

For a static mob there is not an issue, but Blizzard is basically nerfing "ping pong" tanking tactics used on a few fights...

[Zor]

Ghostcrawler wrote:

This was an Ulduar issue. Previously, many bosses were taunt immune and taunt had a short range. With both of those changes, it was possible to ping pong bosses between multiple tanks in order to avoid anyone taking much damage. This goes beyond clever use of an ability by players (and isn't *that* clever since it has been around forever) and into an exploit that trivializes encounters. With this change, you should be able to taunt when you need to but not keep the boss confused and ineffective. The diminishing returns do not actually work on the current PTR build despite the patch notes, but will be implemented soon.

Ah found it thanks. We never really did this to the extreme others must have/do that I know of.

[Darkmithoron]

No, but as I said, we DO use it...now it's going to be yet another mechanic that makes boss fights "timed". You will not only be working against an enrage timer, but to the point when a boss is threat capped

[Zor]

When do we?:

"With this change, you should be able to taunt when you need to but not keep the boss confused and ineffective. "

And how does a taunt threat cap a boss?

Thinking of all your examples I don't think this effects our current style one bit:

1. Gluth...3 stacks then taunt. So 15 seconds(not sure on the time) between 2 taunts? This encounter was seemingly made for doing this, maybe not?
2. Kel...mind control how often? Every 30 secs?
3. Elife catching threat...well that depends on the tps not the taunt.

Just a noob trying to understand a bit

[Darkmithoron]

If it's on diminishing returns, it means each taunt is going to work for less and less time, until it ultimately won't work at all...unless I'm missing something from what they say it is going to be doing...

so what's the cut-off...10 taunts? 5? 3? In a Gluth fight we're probably taunting 12-15 times back and forth...so if those diminishing returns are SHARED, then what's the ultimate limit you can taunt until it doesn't work at all...

[Hamond]

They are nerfing kel that he no longer wipes aggro during mind control in 3.1.

[Darkmithoron]

Hamond wrote:

They are nerfing kel that he no longer wipes aggro during mind control in 3.1.

Probably in response to this, but they aren't changing Gluth and they are doing this for bosses in Ulduar where this apparently was a mechanic...

[Zor]

I would guess that taunts will have a reset to the DR as does many mechanics in PVP for example.

Also, it sounds like people (skillfull raiders) were thinking outside the box a bit and using this to take boss mobs out of play totally by having two ranged taunts ping ponging said boss mob without ever taking a hit.

Good stuff, keep it coming.

[Elife]

1. When a spell with diminishing returns is used against a target in PvP, the first effect has full duration.
   
2. On the second use of the same category of spell (e.g. slowing), that spell's duration is reduced by 50%.
   
3. On the third use, the duration is reduced by 75%.
   
4. On the fourth attempt, the target becomes immune to the spell.
   
5. Spells must be used on the same target within 15 seconds of the *end* of the duration in order to be diminished. In other words, if a target hasn't had a slowing spell active on them for more than 15 seconds, the next slowing spell will have full effect.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns

[Darkmithoron]

Also realize ToT and Misdirect are "taunts" so will be on the diminishing return count as well...

[Darkmithoron]

Zor wrote:

Also, it sounds like people (skillfull raiders) were thinking outside the box a bit and using this to take boss mobs out of play totally by having two ranged taunts ping ponging said boss mob without ever taking a hit..

Taunt only has a 30 yard range, so it's not like they were pulling a mob ungodly distances...

[Zor]

The better guilds do amazing things, I would bet this is one of them. 30 yds is more than enough room to ping pong a boss.


I didn't think of ToT being a taunt. Will have to think about that.

The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.

ToT i think of more as a buff than a taunt.


I kinda like Vigilance (which will be interesting with this change) after pugging with two prot warriors the other night:

Focus your protective gaze on a group or raid target, reducing their damage taken by 3% and transfers 10% of the threat they cause to you. In addition, each time they are hit by an attack your Taunt cooldown is refreshed. Lasts 30 min. This effect can only be on one target at a time.


Edit - Wow Vigilance sounds simply amazing for OS3 drakes, at least until the nerf
"This spell is absolutely golden if you are tanking multiple adds as an off tank. Sartharion + Drakes is a great example for this.

Simply buff your maintank with Vigilance and you'll be able to enjoy your Taunts without cooldown. Just perfect for keeping those adds focused on you. "

[Phidelis]

MD and ToT don't count as taunts I don't think, but aside from that I think this is more to discourage Army of the Dead, and if not it's definitely a big nerf to the skill since using it will possibly take away the tanks ability to taunt due to dr. just a thought :P